Episode Transcript
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Ki Sung : Welcome to the MindShift Podcast the place we discover the way forward for studying and the way we increase our youngsters. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years for the reason that fall of Saigon, the top of the Vietnam Warfare. And whereas the Vietnamese-American neighborhood right here has flourished and grown, their illustration in youngsters’s books is catching up with the inhabitants. In at the moment’s episode, we’ll hear from youngsters’s e-book illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the e-book, Simone. The story of Simone is about in California and brings to life among the choices a younger woman is pressured to make when evacuating her house due to a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the e-book, however the textual content of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Viet Thanh Nguyen.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan, welcome to Thoughts Shift. Inform us about your e-book, Simone, and what impressed you to inform this story.
Minnie Phan: Hello, it’s so nice to be right here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone really got here from 2020 throughout a really intense time for I believe everybody throughout the globe the place particularly particularly within the Bay Space the place we had not simply the pandemic however the wildfires as properly. In order I’m processing and and going by means of the motions I used to be leaning into myself as an grownup I used to be main into what I’ve all the time which was drawing and portray and writing. And I assumed, what are children doing? And I had a sense children had been doing the very same factor. They had been drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a brief e-book about wildfires and this expertise of this little woman who’s making an attempt to grasp the world by means of her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and he or she mentioned, I like the artwork, however the story is someplace, it’s not fairly there but. Do you wanna work with a author? in, , I suppose I’ve received guts as a result of I abruptly mentioned, I do know a author and I advised, I advised Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years in the past and he’s certainly one of my literary heroes and I used to be there on the launch of The Sympathizer earlier than it gained the Pulitzer and I adopted his profession for nearly a decade over and I simply all the time knew that sooner or later I wished to work with him. So when this chance got here up, I mentioned, attempt to ask Viet. And I bear in mind earlier than any editors or publishers or any contracts, something occurred, Viet received the e-mail from his agent about my undertaking and Viet mentioned, name me. So I name him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this phrase much less storyboard. And, I swear in that second, I assumed, I bombed, I blew it, he’s by no means gonna work with me. After which 20 minutes later, I received an e mail and he mentioned, Okay, let’s go.
Ki Sung: Congrats on touchdown such a giant fish.
Minnie Phan: My household’s from a fishing village, so I’ve received it in my bones.
Ki Sung: Superior.
Minnie Phan: So, I usually pitch the e-book as a younger woman going through intergenerational… experiences with local weather change. However Viet usually says, I believe it’s extra a few younger woman and the ability of artwork and the way artwork is used to attach with herself and different individuals. As a result of the e-book is extra than simply about this terrifying hearth that threatens her house. It’s about how she’s capable of join with different people who find themselves going by means of comparable experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, inform me your story. Let’s draw your home. What does it appear like? Do you need to go house? What does your private home appear like?
Ki Sung: I do love that distinction perhaps between the children’ expertise versus the adults as a result of there may be one web page the place adults are utilizing huge phrases that youngsters might have seen. However that is actually about processing occasions that occur in children’ lives which may be out of their management.
Minnie Phan: Completely, for positive. I imply, I’m fascinated about, can I am going into my favourite youngsters’s e-book?
Ki Sung: Completely.
Minnie Phan: Okay. I’m take into consideration after I was a child, I really didn’t learn very a lot. My dad and mom are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, particularly central Vietnam. And I bear in mind I didn’t actually have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, however there was one e-book that I bear in mind so clearly. I’m gonna learn the title. Alexander and the Horrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Unhealthy Day. And I bear in mind, so clearly, choosing up this e-book and saying, that is how I really feel on a extremely unhealthy day. That is how really feel. And it didn’t matter, actually, what occurred that day, but it surely was that I may join and establish what was happening. And that was due to an image e-book. You understand, my dad and mom and I… We didn’t have a really robust shared language. I moved lots as a child within the Bay Space. I used to be born in Stockton, however went to 5 elementary faculties all around the Bay Space. So I didn’t have a whole lot of secure connections, however I all the time had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.
Ki Sung: To be sincere, that is inspiring to me as a result of I believe there are a whole lot of educators who do educate college students who’ve struggles speaking with their dad and mom, who perhaps are the translator for his or her household, translating essential paperwork, who transfer from place to put, don’t ever actually really feel settled. So that is actually nice to listen to your reflection in your private expertise and assist different children entry that as properly by means of this e-book.
Minnie Phan: Completely. Illustration is significant to my work, in fact, however actually, I believe the core of why I do what I do is to attach with my interior little one, which I believe all of us have inside. And I believe, the nearer you might be to your interior little one the higher you’ll be able to make media and artwork for youngsters, since you actually perceive the expertise. Being a child is each joyful and exquisite and thrilling and enjoyable, of trigger, however I believe adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. emotions that youngsters have, the deep capacity that youngsters are able to. Not many individuals undergo rising up in a refugee immigrant household. It’s a lonely expertise, and it’s scary. However I did it, and so many tens of millions of different have. And I believe that’s additionally why we want artwork within the Vietnamese diaspora, as a result of it captures this expertise that’s actually distinctive and particular. And I may go into my journey.
Ki Sung : Yeah, let’s hear it. I do know you simply received again from a giant journey to Japan and Korea, is that proper? And some years in the past you had additionally gone to Vietnam. Are you able to speak about your travels?
Minnie Phan: Okay, yeah, that is huge, we’re gonna get into it. So, I discussed I’ve moved lots as a child, 5 elementary faculties. I really ended up going to highschool in Pleasanton and I struggled lots in highschool. I virtually didn’t graduate, I had a horrible GPA and I used to be simply within the mistaken crowd. However my artwork trainer actually noticed one thing in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Newbie Valley Excessive, He’s phenomenal. modified my life. He actually confirmed me what artwork may do and I discovered ardour and which means and route and so I utilized to artwork faculty my senior yr and I received a full-ride scholarship to California Faculty of the Arts. And I bear in mind it broke my dad and mom coronary heart. They had been so upset they couldn’t consider it even when it was a full- experience scholarship to a non-public artwork faculty. They felt that I used to be selecting starvation in a approach the place They didn’t select starvation. It was pressured upon them. My dad and mom grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province referred to as Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese individuals listening. I do know my Vietnamese just isn’t good, however that’s okay. However they’re from a small fishing village. And my mom needed to drop out of college when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, as a result of they had been surviving a famine, conflict. They’ve misplaced family members. Starvation was not an possibility. It was a actuality. And so after I selected artwork faculty, all they may see was she’s selecting a tough life. However they didn’t perceive at that second that what I used to be selecting was to inform our tales, was to heal so most of the intergenerational wounds or no less than try to heal by means of a refrain of artists’ voices, the injuries that the Vietnamese diaspora throughout the globe has. And it has been a phenomenal journey. I believe my life wouldn’t be what it’s if I didn’t go to artwork faculty. After I was a junior at CCA, I gained a scholarship that was no strings connected cash. I may do something, pay tuition, get artwork provides. And I made a decision to go to Vietnam for the primary time on my own. Three weeks, I had no concept what I used to be doing. I’d by no means been on a airplane alone earlier than and I’d ever been to a rural place, a creating nation, I’ve by no means met so many members of the family. However I needed to, I’ve to as a result of my dad and mom actually simply wished to raise us up economically in a secure place the place we didn’t have to fret about. illness, conflict, et cetera. However I wished to know, who am I? Who’re we? How can we get right here? Why are we right here? And there’s so many issues that we didn’t be taught at school, in highschool, et cetera. So I needed to actually, I believe I wished to be courageous and do exhausting issues. And that have modified my life. I used to be 21 and I met so many variety family. Individuals had been so candy and I noticed wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d by no means skilled earlier than. However I additionally noticed love and pleasure and affection in a approach that solely a village, a real village may present. And in addition, The expertise humanized my dad and mom as a result of my dad and mom had been so upset about my option to go to artwork faculty. However after I went to Vietnam, I used to be staying on the house of my dad and mom, my mom’s childhood house, and I abruptly may see, I may abruptly see her little child ft working by means of the sand. And I bear in mind this elder came over the home and he or she had misplaced her sight and he or she really had raised my mom when my grandmother had died. And this girl, she lifts her palms and he or she touches my face and he or she goes, I do know who that is. That is Tay’s daughter. I do know her. And so then I abruptly had this chance to ask, what was my mom like when she was a lady? What was she like when was little? There have been abruptly so many avenues and I wanted that therapeutic. And I believe I couldn’t make it by means of or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world by means of an artist’s lens. I used to be there to bear witness to the lives of the individuals round me and likewise my very own life. It actually modified me going again to Vietnam. I got here again and I believe I held much more forgiveness and understanding and love for my dad and mom and my household finest they may do.
Ki Sung: I do know teenage years are exhausting for everyone, however once you’re in a position to have a look at the longer arc of a relationship, these moments of restoration, proper, of therapeutic could be so helpful in the long run. So I’m glad you had that have. And the artwork that you just make can be how individuals can recall and course of their experiences. So that you’re imprinting your message on to. children and adults as properly after they undergo the hardship and take into consideration how one can get well from that.
Minnie Phan: Hmm. Yeah, it’s attention-grabbing. Truly, I believe the going so fascinated about the image e-book house as particularly about variety and illustration. I Assume probably the most profitable books are those that seize The kid expertise or the expertise of a person in that second I’ve seen a number of instructions within the picturebook Neighborhood that’s about variety or various image books one is the author therapeutic a trauma, the actually particular issues that they need that they had seen after they had been a child. They usually need this e-book to exist as a result of it’s essential. And it’s like, if this e-book exists now, my youthful little one self can have it. And I believe there are additionally different books the place it’s particularly in regards to the expertise of the child. I additionally illustrated a e-book referred to as The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that e-book was about one other metaphor for intergenerational connection a few younger woman who finds her mom’s al-yaj and dances in it after which tears it, and he or she feels so unhealthy. However an important a part of that e-book is forgiveness. I believe that’s a part of the therapeutic that I believe children need to hear, prefer it’s OK to make errors. It’s OK. And so I believe these are the tales that I actually, actually join with.
Ki Sung: Yeah, and breaking one thing of your dad and mom or tearing one thing that’s all the time terrifying as a child. Positively. Okay, so what books are you able to advocate that function Vietnamese American characters?
Minnie Phan: Oh, there’s so many. I actually love the e-book Needs. I consider that one’s by Monty. And I additionally I like, I liked The Finest We May Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I really met Tee when she was nonetheless engaged on it and I used to be there on the launch of her e-book and it’s simply been so lovely seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And in addition I really feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance proper now. I see artistic energy, cultural energy, constructing within the Vietnamese neighborhood. And I like it, I like. And Viet talks about this usually, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to finally transcend the ache and trauma of conflict, which in fact is significant and essential and should be honored. However for us, to maneuver ahead as people and as a neighborhood, we now have to see past the heartache, the ache and see the potential, the enjoyment, the longer term. And a lot of our future is in our younger individuals who get to have so many alternatives that we and our dad and mom didn’t get to have, however they get proper this second. Every other books you need to advocate? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about popping out and being queer. There’s Household Type about meals. Oh, there’s a terrific, actually attention-grabbing e-book referred to as My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s informed, that is really perhaps extra of an grownup e-book, but it surely’s her perspective of residing in Vietnam and her father’s expertise of residing in Vietnam. So it’s each of their experiences residing overseas and the e-book finally converges within the middle the place they meet. It’s very attention-grabbing. It’s like a twin memoir. Oh, what? I wanna give a giant shout out. I wanna to present a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So after I graduated artwork faculty, I used to be model new to the sector. I had no examples of Vietnamese individuals within the arts. And I used to be searching spectator books in Oakland sooner or later and I picked up this e-book and I simply liked the artwork. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was simply so good. I consider it was Vampirina Ballerina. however I picked it up and I abruptly noticed the title and it was a Vietnamese title, the final title Pham. And it was such a phenomenal, inspiring second the place I bear in mind saying, if she will be able to do it, I can do. And truly I had this lovely full circle second the place I used to be on stage along with her final yr on the Viet Ebook Fest, offered by Vala. And I received to inform her the story and it was simply lovely that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and author making it occur. If my 18 yr previous self may see her and simply know that regardless that my neighborhood has no concept what I’m pursuing, it’s attainable. I could be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it actually doesn’t surrender telling their story, making artwork, being artistic. And should you see your little, should you your little making artwork and being artistic, let that flourish. It’s gonna present up in so many alternative methods.
Ki Sung: These are nice suggestions. I hope that extra children and oldsters learn these books. I hope they see themselves within the tales and likewise embody what provides them pleasure. And at all ages, artwork is that, and it may possibly unlock so many different experiences, very like what you could have realized all through your profession. So thanks, Minnie Phan, for being right here with us on Thoughts Shift.
Minnie Phan: Thanks a lot.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan is a youngsters’s e-book illustrator who not too long ago printed Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and he or she’s a author and artist based mostly in Oakland. We’ll carry you extra concepts and improvements from consultants in training and past. Hit observe in your favourite podcast app so that you don’t miss a factor. The MindShift group consists of me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Further help from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported partially by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Basis and members of KQED. Thanks a lot for listening.
